Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Jake Chervinsky, chief legal officer of Variant, discusses the current state of crypto regulation, touching on several ongoing legal and regulatory issues in the crypto space, including Uniswap’s Wells notice, the Coinbase case, the Tornado Cash case, the Ethereum Foundation investigation and more. Chervinsky argues that the government’s approach to these cases is often misguided, particularly in instances where they hold software developers liable for how third parties use their software. He also discusses the potential implications of the government’s case against Tornado Cash, suggesting that it could have far-reaching consequences for all open-source software developers.

Chervinsky also delves into the SEC’s ongoing investigations into the Ethereum Foundation, as well as the recent IRS draft form that lists unhosted wallets as a type of broker. He expressed concern about the potential impact of these investigations on the crypto industry, but remained optimistic about the future of DeFi in the US.

Show highlights:

  • How the Tornado Cash case could set a critical precedent for open-source software
  • How the government’s Tornado indictment reveals a fear of unsurveilled financial systems, according to Jake
  • What the implications of the Tornado Cash case could be for the broader DeFi space
  • What lessons can be learned from the $62 million hack of Munchables on Blast
  • How to address the challenge of malicious actors like North Korea using a permissionless system
  • Whether Coinbase’s staking services are considered a securities offering
  • Whether Judge Failla’s ruling on Coinbase acting as a broker could be overturned
  • Why Jake thinks the SEC will face significant challenges in its potential case against Uniswap Labs
  • How the Debt Box case order impacts the SEC’s reputation, according to Jake
  • How the industry is pushing back against the SEC’s regulation by enforcement with its own lawsuits for Lejilex and Beba
  • The future of DeFi in the U.S. and its potential for success, according to Jake
  • Why Jake believes the SEC will deny Ether ETFs and why he disagrees with the latest stablecoin regulation bill by Lummis and Gillibrand
  • How the U.S. Presidential election could impact the future of the crypto industry

Thank you to our sponsors!




Tornado Cash

Munchables exploit

SEC cases:

  • Coinbase
  • Unchained:
  • Uniswap
  • Ethereum Foundation
  • Unchained:
  • Debt Box
  • Beba
      • DeFi Education Fund and Beba sue SEC over airdrop policies
  • Lejilex