Ordinal theory has unleashed a new wave of NFTs, memecoins and innovation on Bitcoin — but not without controversy. Bitcoin educator Dan Held and Bitcoin Frontier Fund Managing Partner Trevor Owens join the show to discuss the breakneck rise of BRC-20s and why they’re both bullish on what memecoins mean for the original blockchain.


Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights:

  • what ordinal theory is and how it enabled Bitcoin “NFTs”
  • how the Ordinals Protocol differs from the ERC-721 token standard used by many Ethereum NFTs
  • how BRC-20s work by relying on some off-chain mechanisms
  • why Bitcoin is not a “dinosaur chain,” according to Dan
  • why Trevor says BRC-20 memecoins are superior to those on Ethereum
  • what the practical utilities of BRC-20s are, if any
  • why transaction fees in Bitcoin rose so much and why it’s healthy for the network
  • whether innovation is coming back to Bitcoin
  • whether Satoshi Nakamoto would have approved of Bitcoin NFTs
  • the role of speculation in fueling bitcoin adoption
  • the current and future state of layer 2s on Bitcoin
  • why Dan says BRC-20s “absolutely” solve the problem with Bitcoin’s security budget
  • why it’s hard to determine an “appropriate” amount for the security budget of Bitcoin
  • how the NFT market could be shaped after the rise of Ordinals and BRC-20s
  • what needs to be developed so that BRC-20s can flourish


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  • Dan Held, Bitcoin educator and marketing advisor at Trust Machines
  • Trevor Owens, managing partner at Bitcoin Frontier Fund

Previous coverage of Unchained on Ordinals:


Read the episode transcript here