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Despite the ups and downs of the Ethereum ecosystem, two of its most influential builders—Aave’s Stani Kulechov and Sky’s Rune Christensen—remain bullish.

In this episode, they discuss whether we’re witnessing a DeFi renaissance, the challenges of building on Ethereum vs. Solana, and why DeFi adoption isn’t growing as fast as some expected. They debate stablecoins, whether Solana is truly innovating, and how AI could transform DeFi by automating governance and risk management.

They also respond to some hot takes—including whether Aave is falling behind Solana-based Kamino, and why Sky deployed its USDS stablecoin on Solana despite Rune’s long-standing Ethereum advocacy.

Show highlights:

• Whether Sky and Aave are experiencing a “DeFi renaissance”
• How Stani and Rune are trying to appeal to a simpler audience
• Whether developers overlook how easy it is to build DeFi on Ethereum
• Why Stani believes there is not a lot of innovation in Solana
• What would need to happen for Aave to be in Solana
• Why Sky deployed USDS on Solana
• Whether the Ethereum ecosystem should be worried about users going to other chains
• Why Rune praises Solana’s culture
• How USDS’s growth on Base happens organically, contrary to Solana
• Why they believe that the combination of AI and DeFi will be so powerful

Thank you to our sponsors!

• Mantle
• RockWallet
• Kelp DAO

Guest:

• Stani Kulechov, Founder and CEO of Aave
  • Previous appearances on Unchained:
    • Stani Kulechov on Why Aave Is So Successful – Unchained
    • The Chopping Block w/ Stani Kulechov: Operation Chokepoint 2.0, Ethereum Innovation Push, & Polymarket Whales – Unchained
• Rune Christensen, Co-founder of Sky
  • Previous appearances on Unchained:
    • Can Maker’s Rune Christensen Fix the Sad State of DAO Governance?
    • Rune Christensen of MakerDAO Part 1: How to Keep a Crypto-Collateralized Stablecoin Afloat
    • Rune Christensen of MakerDAO Part 2: How Dai Stayed at $1 While ETH Crashed From $1,400 to $85 
    • The Chopping Block: How to Manage MakerDAO, With Hasu and Rune
    • Rune Christensen of MakerDao on Its $15 Million From Andreessen Horowitz
    • Why It’s so Hard to Keep Stablecoins Stable

Links

• Aave 2030 roadmap
• Alex Svanevik of Nansen tweeted: “When Aave on Solana?”
• Qiao Wang of Alliance DAO commenting on why he recommends people build on Solana
• The First Non-EVM Deployment of Aave Protocol: Aave V3 on Aptos – General – Aptos Forum