Listen to the episode on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Thank you to our sponsor!
    • Visit 1inch.com to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying – swap it at 1inch.com

Every legal system assumes a human sits on the other side of a dispute. Albert Castellana, CEO of GenLayer Labs, is betting that assumption breaks down within the decade, once AI agents start disagreeing with each other faster than any court could keep up.

Castellana built the idea after StakeHound, the liquid-staking company he ran before Lido existed, lost $150 million when a custodian misplaced two keys, and he saw how slow and costly the legal system was. He joins Arthur Hayes, CEO of Flop Labs and CIO of Maelstrom, to argue agentic commerce cannot scale without its own dispute layer, since agents cannot be jailed.

They cover how GenLayer escalates a dispute to up to 1,500 AI validators for a verdict in minutes, how it compares to Kleros, UMA, and the failed Aragon Court, and why Hayes wants Flop plugged into GenLayer once both go live.

If agents cannot go to jail, escrowed money may be the only leverage left.

Host:

    • Laura Shin – Founder, CEO and Host of Unchained

Guests: