Ram and Chris disagree on whether it was good for Anthropic AI Dario Amodei to refuse to help the Department of War over mass surveillance and autonomous lethal decision making. Ram also wonders whether people would want Sam Altman of OpenAI making those decisions.

The crew surmise that Anthropic’s own employees may have pressured it to not cave to the government. And finally, they ask what the proper way to value AIs is. Might they someday be valued like utilities?